Stop installing `setuptools` and `wheel` by default on Python 3.12+ environments

[pradyunsg]

What's the problem this feature will solve?

pip can now operate without setuptools in the environment, and it will be removed from the default set of venv packages in Python 3.12+ (python/cpython#101039)

Describe the solution you'd like

What the title says. :)

Alternative Solutions

Not doing this, and being inconsistent with venv.

Additional context

N/A

[chrysle]

I'll try to implement the requested behavior.

[gaborbernat]

Go ahead 😃

[chrysle]

@gaborbernat Did I get it right that the seed packages setuptools and wheel and their wheels are to be removed? Before I do anything wrong.

[gaborbernat]

We should not remove those. We should just by default disable installing this on 3.12 or later. The user might still enable it manually.

[chrysle]

We should not remove those. We should just by default disable installing this on 3.12 or later. The user might still enable it manually.

Thanks for the quick response! Should an option like --with-seeders be created for that?

[gaborbernat]

No need we already have --setuptools --wheels whose default we can change.

[jaraco]

Really happy to see setuptools and wheel removed by default. Thanks for that!

In jaraco/pip-run#73, I spent about an hour trying to figure out why the Python 3.12 builds were failing when the other Pythons weren't. I wouldn't have expected virtualenv to be providing version-specific features. One of the advantages of third-party packages is that they aren't coupled to Python releases and can provide users a consistent experience across Python versions.

By rolling out this feature based on the Python version, you're creating an extra dimension to the configuration space. I'd have rather seen it rolled out universally (or at least made opt-in for users on older Pythons).